Can somebody tell me what Daniel Cassidy's credentials are?! I and the medical professionals monitoring my blood pressure will thank you.
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13 comments:
His new book, "The Chirps and Twitters of the Bottle-Nosed Dolphin: Roots in Lost Irish Liturgical Jargon, Acoustically Filtered Through Salt Water", is a good read, a Mháire. Give it a chance.
If he has good credentials, does that make his new book even more awesome?
Only if it's written better than the columns I've read. Playing match-'em-up with syllables in two languages is not sufficient scientific grounds to satisfy my linguistic needs.
Even if all those syllables usually match one for one across a whole slua of vocabularly, all considered slang, all having to do with the underground activities that the Irish Americans were kings of? If he did that with a few words, I would agree with what you're saying, but a whole lexicon?
I read the book and I was beside myself in áthas. It was indeed a dosier (I don't have the book in front of me so I'm sure the spelling isn't correct, but I'm sure you dig, I mean, tig, babe.)
To answer your question, according to the book, Daniel Cassidy is the founder and co-director of the Irish Studies Program at New College in San Francisco.
I don't know how much of a credential that is, but again, his credentials don't validate his claims one way or the other.
I think they caint for themselves. ;)
What I'm looking for is some insight into his educational or experiential background that will assure me that he knows something about etymological research. I've seen the same item that you mention, but while such a position could certainly call on a number of skill sets, it doesn't necessarily overlap with linguistics. Maybe, but maybe not.
Let me be clear about this -- I don't know either way about Cassidy's background. I know how I respond emotionally and intellectually when I've read his other writings, and I would honestly like to know where all this comes from for him. I would love to hear that it comes from a solid grounding in science.
Etymology is a heartbreaking pursuit. For a long, long while, I was convinced that it was my calling to be a historical linguist, waking up every day impoverished but deliriously happy in my work. Well, I'm not one, but not for lack of study or interest. Some is just due to the twist and turns of life, but some of it is because I respected the field too much to inflict my half-assed attention span on it. Etymology is heartbreaking because language is ephemeral and mutable and idiosyncratic, and so so often no traceable evidence is left behind. All those "origin unknown" labels are there not because no one has ever thought about where that word came from -- it's because there's no hard evidence. It's heartbreaking, but there it is. The situation becomes especially murky when dealing with superstrates and substrates, and Irish as a substrate was at an abysmal sociolinguistic disadvantage against the juggernaut that was English, especially in the United States. And slang is a minefield. (Please pardon what I think is somewhat of a misuse of the terms "substrate" and "superstrate" here -- I'm writing in a rush and can't think of the better terms to use to describe the situation of the two languages in the U.S.)
I did some looking around to see if I could find some more information on the field that might be helpful, that might show more about what goes into the study of a word's origin, that might do a better job than I can at discussing the issues involved and the pitfalls that must be avoided, but I haven't had a lot of luck, nor the time to make my own luck. The site at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology is a place to start but it's not what I was really hoping for. If I see something that's more to the purpose I'll add it later, or maybe Wes knows of something.
But anyway, as to the question of it being enough to establish a connection that two things sound alike, and the right people may have been in the right place at the right time, doing the right things? No, it's not. It's a great place to start, but it's not enough to claim that the mystery's solved.
Now, at this point you may be gearing up to call me an egghead, so let me go on to tell you that one of life's twists for me was stumbling into the study of Irish. What a glorious language! So much for my career as a classicist (which is what I thought I'd do after the historical linguistics thing didn't pan out)! Not only is the language itself fascinating, but who could fail to be moved at its story? My mind boggles at the horrifying concept of a people induced to give up its language. Back in those days I entertained myself with earnest notions of how surely Irish had had SO much influence on the English I speak -- how could it not, being such an awesome language? I even came up with that "shanty" thing all on my lonesome, and OH my wrath when those damned dictionary jerks tried telling me otherwise. Can't they see the sound correspondence I see? Don't the French have enough? Where's the Irish slice of the pie?! And, well, let me sum up by saying I looked into it further, and there's some justification to the French thing. Sigh.
Before this happens: I don't actually want to argue about the claims themselves. I've got just enough knowledge about researching word histories to know I don't have the chops to do it the way it deserves to be done. I just mention the "shanty" thing because I think it's a telling example.
I am blathering on like this, in case it's not obvious, in order to convince you that I'm not trying to be a snob about this, or a cold fish academic. I love Irish. I love English. And, as the saying goes, I want to believe! But I have too much love of...well, love of language generally, and respect for the truth of how we came to say the things we do, to smile blithely at someone who is handing me a dish of everything I've wanted for years, on a silver platter with a sprig of parsley on the side, a dish that I thought I could never ever have, and respect myself later if I were to accept it without even wondering what it was made out of, when other cooks in the same kitchen have had so little success.
I do think that Irish immigrants had some sort of effect on English. Was it a lot? Well, the sheer volume that is under discussion is in itself suspicious. Is any of it traceable? Sadly, that's a tough row to hoe, for those with the fortitude to take on the investigation. Yes, investigation -- I'd agree with the claim that Irish has gotten short shrift over the years, because of its low status, but that doesn't make it okay to cut corners now. I would love for a connection between Irish and English (outside of Ireland, I mean) to be substantiated, but it has to be done properly.
Getting back to my original question, I would just like to know more about the source, or maybe I should say the filter. And it doesn't necessarily have to be an academic background. Quite the hypocrite that would make me! It was glassy-eyed stares that put me on the primrose path to Hell via graduate school. So yes, experience works for me, too. Then I can start in on the need for a good editor, to bring out the best in rigorous academic research.
I don't expect that you'll agree with me, given how divisive language can be as a subject of discussion, but can you at least understand where I'm coming from?
I totally get what you are saying about the emotional thing. I was getting choked up as I was reading the book, and if for some weird possible strange reason he is wrong, I would feel like anyone would when they felt like they finally made it...and then didn't.
But trust me.... whether or not you read the book, you will be teaching about the Tampa Bay Playboys of the Western World within the year.
OK. I'll bite. What are the "Tampa Bay Playboys of the Western World"?
It's human nature to be proud of one's heritage and to want to see it reflected in one's day-to-day life. Language belongs to all of us, one way or another, so maybe that's why it seems to get this kind of attention so often -- anyone else out there remember "My Big Fat Greek Wedding?" That's why etymologists have to fight to maintain scientific integrity.
Actually any aspect of the study of language is tricky for separating fact from what we want to be true. I had to stop reading the books like "There Is No Zoo In Zoology" -- in the case of that particular book, I was emotionally exhausted halfway through. Paying closer attention, I realized I was on an emotional roller coaster ride: if the author chose the pronunciation I agreed with, well obviously he was a smart guy! If he judged in favor of another pronunciation, hmph. And worst of all, sometimes he was clearly arbitrary about why he chose what he did! (He was comparing pronunciations from several respected dictionaries that had been published over the previous several decades, if I recall the setup correctly.) Once he even picked a pronunciation just because he liked it best.
Still haven't seen any sites that are really what I wanted to point out, but the one at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_etymology touches on the topic a bit. I thought I saw a site with examples of how English speakers have changed words to more closely align with an assumed etymology, but I can't remember where that was.
OK... right, "buccaneer". I get it now.
Wes said...
Bad Etymology seems to be a fervent hobby for some, and the fight to maintain scientific integrity is an ongoing effort.
Here are some examples of good etymology:
Word Origins ... and How We Know Them: Etymology for Everyone by Anatoly Liberman (Gotta love your Liberman!)
Studies in Etymology by Charles William Dunmore
And this bears reading for its related materials,
From Etymology to Pragmatics: Metaphorical and Cultural Aspects of Semantic Structure (Cambridge Studies in Linguistics) by Eve Sweetser
And here's an interesting discussion on some bad etymology:
http://www.languagehat.com/archives/000369.php
The worst example of etymology I've come across is
Celtic Mythology by James MacKillop
So have we read this book yet, or are we still checking badges?
Likewise, how are you doing on the reading list Wes suggested?
But seriously, I've got a lot of irons in the fire just at the moment, so my time is really limited. That's why I'd like to know whether the author knows what he's doing, or if he's one more person like all those at the many Irish events I've attended who corner me and explain to me at length why 'Jesus' is an Irish name. (I am not making that up, and oh yes it was all phrased in intellectual terms.)
As I said in previous comments, reading about language stuff can be intensely emotional, and I don't have the energy to spare right now if it's not actually information I can trust. I've seen a review of the book by a historian, but haven't spotted anything by an etymologist or linguist. I'd be happy to hear of any that have been published.
Or is it that you don't respect the field of linguistics? I mean, would you ride in a vehicle built from scratch by a food scientist? A food scientist who has driven and ridden in vehicles for years? Surely those are some wheels you can trust, right? How about investing your money with a brokerage firm owned and operated by a physicist? Sure he/she has never paid two minutes attention to how the stock market works, but he/she must have gone to school for years, so your money's in good hands, right?
(Not that I don't like a good joke about linguistics -- the recent reference by Stephen Colbert was hysterical! See http://www.comedycentral.com/motherload/?lnk=v&ml_video=90875
, or http://www.tv.com/the-colbert-report/michael-r.-bechloss/episode/1118238/summary.html for text-only.)
So anyway, the minute I know the research is kosher, I'll be all over that tasty treat. Until then, I'm gonna concentrate on the stuff I gotta get done.
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